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Sarah Hicks and Sam Bergman

Thursday, May 8, 2008

The Mahler Problem

We're playing Mahler's ginormous 9th Symphony this week with one of my favorite guest conductors, Mark Wigglesworth. Which is interesting, because it's entirely possible that you could be a regular visitor to the Minnesota Orchestra web site, could even be planning to attend this concert, and be unaware that there's any Mahler on the program.

The headline on the website for this concert is "Schubert's Unfinished Symphony," which is, to be fair, also on the program. The same description appears on the concert tickets themselves. The thing is, the Schubert, lovely though it is, is a 20-minute appetizer, while the Mahler is a 90-minute magnum opus, so it might seem a bit odd for our marketing department to be highlighting what is unquestionably the less significant work. But there's a reason that they do it, and it's one that musicians often avoid talking about: the concertgoing public just doesn't seem to like Mahler.

I should qualify that right off the bat by saying that, clearly, many people do like Mahler, and several thousand people will be joining us for the concerts this week to prove it. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if our overall ticket sales this week are among our lowest totals of the season. Past experiences with Mahler, in fact, almost guarantee it. And this isn't just a Minnesota problem - audiences across America are decidedly less enthusiastic about Mahler than we musicians are.

So what's the problem here? Mahler's symphonies have been a part of the standard orchestral repertoire for the better part of a century now, so it can hardly be a lack of familiarity that keeps audiences at bay. If anything, I get the sense that our audiences know exactly what a Mahler symphony is, and that it's that knowledge that keeps them away. A couple of years back, our piccolo player and I were talking about Mahler's 5th symphony at a Hallowe'en party (yes, we're huge dorks,) and her husband disgustedly broke into the conversation to explain, in great detail, that only musicians like Mahler, and that people who have to listen to it (rather than playing it) generally hate the experience.

And the thing is, he may not be wrong about that. There's no question that Mahler is generally a lot of fun to play, especially if you're lucky enough to play it with a really good orchestra, under a really great conductor. The music is hugely challenging for every instrument in the orchestra, contains plenty of melodic content for everyone, fits together like the world's most complex jigsaw puzzle, and is just incredibly visceral and raw in it's style. If playing Mozart is like baseball, all clean lines and perfect structure, playing Mahler is like rugby. It's brutal and draining and everyone seems to be piling onto everyone else at exactly the same time, but damn, it's exciting.

Of course, Mahler is brutal and draining for audiences as well. And on top of that, Mahler symphonies are loooooooooong. The one we're playing this week is 90 minutes, which isn't at all unusual for him. I think his shortest symphony is an hour, which is as long as Beethoven's longest. And when you consider that, in most Mahler symphonies, the drama, the pathos, the agony, and the navel-gazing start right off the top and almost never ratchet down, it's asking a lot of an audience. Most people aren't in the mood for that sort of thing very often, and a fair number of people never are. It's like asking people how they feel about Ulysses. Most will allow that it's a great work of literature, but they're not going to make an attempt to read it very often, because who has that kind of energy?

I strongly suspect that a lot of concertgoers get turned off to Mahler after wandering into a performance of one of his bigger works (the 5th, the 6th, the 9th, etc.) unaware of what they were in for. Mahler isn't a composer you want catching you off guard. If you're just looking for a nice, relaxing evening out, and you suddenly find yourself being assaulted by all the personal demons of a 150-year-old manic depressive Austrian in musical form, you're not in for a good night. It'd be like intending to spend a quiet night at the movies and wandering into Letters From Iwo Jima. Even though you recognize that it's an impressive work of art, it's not even remotely what you were looking for.

The reality is, too, that a number of Mahler's symphonies are arguably longer and more over-the-top than they needed to be. It's almost impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this, however, because the people who love Mahler really love Mahler. And in the same way that people who love, say, Lord of the Rings, are not willing to hear a single word said against it, Mahlerians are prone to fly into fits of righteousness if anyone so much as suggests that, really, the first movement of the 9th does drag on a bit. So there again, we run the risk of alienating audiences who, encountering a passionate fan of Mahler, are made to feel as if they are just too dumb or impatient to understand the attraction.

All that having been said, a lot of Mahler's music is great stuff, and we're really not going to stop playing it anytime soon, much as our marketing department might like us to. So I'm curious to hear from our readers on the subject. Do you like Mahler? Hate him? Feel confused by him? Does seeing his name on a concert program make you less likely to buy a ticket? And if so, how did that aversion get started? Enquiring musicians (and marketers) worldwide want to know...

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15 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I was in college, I wasn't familiar with Mahler. Several of my friends, though, kept telling me I had to hear him, that I'd fall deeply in love with his music. Then a professor played a section of the 8th Symphony, and I just didn't get it. It was loud, long and overwhelming. I immediately developed a distaste for Mahler.

Then later on, I had the opportunity to sing the 3rd Symphony. The first few movements were fun and all (love the circus!), but I was completely undone by the last movement. I teared up every performance. I just couldn't get enough.

I think you're right - Mahler is so big and overwhelming, you need to be in the right mood or at least prepared to hear him. For me, when I'm in the mood for Mahler, nothing else suffices. But if I'm not prepared to go there, I feel like I'm in a tiny life raft set adrift in a gigantic ocean, with no land in sight. Sure, the sunsets are gorgeous, but I have nothing to anchor to.

May 9, 2008 at 9:10 AM  
Blogger Naun said...

What was that Woody Allen movie where he takes his date out to a performance of Mahler's 9th, and she says the second and third movements were nice, but the fourth movement went on too long?

I'm one of those Mahler diehards you talk about, and I'll resist taking the bait about that first movement. But I will say that hearing the big, draining, epic works (not just Mahler's) in the concert hall is one of the thrills of live music that you can't get anywhere else, and that's why some of us keep coming back.

May 9, 2008 at 12:53 PM  
Blogger AllThingsSpring said...

It has been my usual choice to change my subscription tickets for another show any time Mahler is on the program (unless the other selections are must-hear). He's just too much; overlong epic messes. While the Minnesota Orchestra has done a stellar job of performing his music at the Mahler shows I've attended, it usually isn't enough to rise above the chore that sitting through his works feels like.

May 9, 2008 at 1:57 PM  
Blogger Nicki said...

allthingsspring siad it better than I could. I've tried to like Mahler but the word that comes to mind when I think of his music is "ponderous."

May 9, 2008 at 8:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I've been sitting here listening to the live steam on MPR, feeding our 10 week old baby, he'd been terribly fussy tonight, but he's suddenly finally lights out. So Mahler either bored him to sleep, or he'd rather sleep than listen to Mahler, I'm not sure which. :)

May 9, 2008 at 9:49 PM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Here's my question: is part of some people's aversion to Mahler in any way connected to our fast-paced society, where immediate gratification rules? Because with Mahler, as in a good deal of great art, the gratification is very much delayed!

May 9, 2008 at 10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love listening to Mahler's music. I rarely miss these events, and this week was no exception. I attended tonight's (Friday) concert, and was astonished at the level of playing. Many of the musicians appeared visibly drained, but happy. Mahler is probably the one composer I can most identify with - I suspect there are some facets of my personality that are extremely close to what Mahler had going inside him.

I did find it a bit odd, and even somewhat disrespectful to the musicians and audience to be billing the "Unfinished". It's obvious that the marketing department was trying to squeeze out a few more sales - but any new, unsuspecting listeners that bought a ticket are likely to be so turned off by the experience that they never return again.

I'm 38, and I didn't start listening and likely Mahler symphonies until I was 30. From a listeners perspective, I think you really have to chip away at these pieces - you just can't grab a stack of Mahler symphony recordings and decide one day to listen to them all and get to know them. There is too much there and it's too daunting of a task.

Having listened to #9 tonight, I'm probably not going to be able to listen to it again for a couple of years. I'm one of those people that believes a Mahler symphony requires a certain state of mind - you have to be ready to hear it, and willing to give something of yourself. After hearing most of them (especially #3, #2, #9) I really do feel like I've given something or even exposed something of myself. These things may at times be uplifting experiences, but they are never joyous - it's not like listening to Dvorak's "Carnival" Overture. And so for those looking for a fun, entertaining evening at the symphony these Mahler symphonies will not do. All told, these works require the most experienced and attentive listeners, and on any given night how many of those people are there? I think most people just want to have fun - I may qualify as a nerd for actually preferring a long evening of intellectualism through Mahler, but so be it.

The attendance a couple of years ago for #6 with Conlon was bleak, somewhat better for Litton's 3 a few years ago. I remember being in the audience for #3 with Oue conducting around 8 years ago with vast acreage of empty seats (it was a dreaded Wed. evening concert too boot) but this week it appears to be much better than I would have expected. Nevertheless, unless it's #1-2, and possibly 4-5, I wouldn't ever count on steady attendance.

At any rate, thanks for a wonderful concert. The playing tonight was stunning all evening long, and I am truly grateful.

May 10, 2008 at 12:17 AM  
Blogger AllThingsSpring said...

In response to Sarah's question, at least for my own opinion, the pace of modern society or a desire for instant gratification is really not a factor. I'm willing to guess that a typical Classical music lover would rate at the far end of the bell curve of patience. Classical music is large, long, and intricate by its nature, as opposed to pop music. A composition should take as long as it takes to tell the story, to craft the edifice, to let the musical ideas blossom to their natural conclusion (in fact there are a some compositions where I am annoyed when they are performed too quickly, or that the composer didn't linger long enough). Good music, like good books, good cinema, good stories, takes the time needed, but if it strays too long in a passage here, a scene there, it can be forgiven if the work itself is great. But even my patience has its limits. Mahler comes off as a composer in great need of an editor. There are some simply fantastic musical ideas that he came up with, but he didn't seem to give a care to pacing or brevity, and the audience's appreciation suffers from too much wallowing. His symphonies seem 20 minutes too long. A composition can be long if the musical narrative moves along and carries the audience with it. Time flies when you're having fun. For me, Mahler is exhausting, and the gratification, delayed or not, doesn't offset the price.

May 10, 2008 at 3:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My parents were adamant -- Mahler is 20th century music and therefore junk. Of course, they thought the same thing about the Beatles and the Rolling Stones but that's another story. So, I didn't hear Mahler until college, and it was quite an introduction.

I was studying music in Vienna. My first concert that fall was the Vienna Philharmonic with Bernstein conducting Mahler's 7th. It was sold out. We "bribed" a porter for standing-room-only tickets and got in after standing over an hour in line to get into the Musikverein. I wasn't thinking about the Mahler symphony -- I wanted to see Bernstein in person and I'd heard that he had a superb relationship with the Vienna Philharmonic. We took turns holding our place in the standing room section and sitting down until the concert began. Bernstein was much, much shorter than expected -- I thought such a giant of American music would truly be a physical giant but he wasn't. The Mahler, however, was a giant...and I loved it from the first notes. I especially love the scherzo of that symphony. And we stood through the entire concert without intermission -- 80 minutes of glorious music plus bow after bow until Bernstein and the orchestra played the finale again. It was a peak experience. And I couldn't have been more pleased that my parents were such idiots....(smile)

Listening to Mahler takes concentration. His music has the effect of a spotlight shone into the dark corners of the listener's mind which can be an uncomfortable experience, but it can also feel like being one with the composer and the collective unconscious. I think those who have commented about concerts being an entertaining and relaxing night out have a valid point, though, about how Mahler would not please people of that persuasion. Which is sad, because Mahler's music also has moments of humor -- I'm thinking of the cowbells in the 7th, for example. I love to hear Mahler live in concert because his music brings out the best in orchestras and conductors. And I think Mahler is terribly misunderstood. His music doesn't require an editor but Wagner's does (in my humble opinion) and is a reflection of the times in which he lived. I think marketing departments in America need to remind listeners that Herr Mahler also worked at the NY Philharmonic for a year, didn't he? Or was it the MET?

Anyway, I think Mahler requires patience and a willingness to simply sit and listen with all one's heart and soul. I think it's a sad commentary on contemporary life that people seem to prefer life in soundbytes and in constant motion....

I loved the 9th this week -- bravo! The orchestra sounds just amazing. I also loved Conlon's 6th. And Osmo's 5th. And...you know, the Schubert was right on.

May 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm on the fence about Mahler's symphonies, but I adore Bruckner's. However, I've read that nothing clears out an American concert hall faster than Bruckner. Too bad.

May 11, 2008 at 12:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to point out that this perspective on audiences running away from a concert hall in which Mahler has been programmed is by no means universal.

In Chicago, Mahler's symphonies consistently bring huge crowds to Symphony Center, the Ravinia Festival , and Millennium Park. Last summer's audience for the Grant Park Orchestra's performance of Mahler 5 was the largest crowd for an all-classical program. Those numbers were topped only by the fantastically diverse group who came out to hear rock band the Decemberists perform alongside the orchestra.

Certain ensembles have a longer history of performing and recording Mahler than others have. Isn't it true that Osmo Vanska has only recently added Mahler symphonies to his repertoire? I'd like to suggest that an audience that is unfamiliar with a composer does not automatically dislike the composer. To assume otherwise is, as is unfortunately common in classical music artistic management, to underestimate the listeners' ears.

May 13, 2008 at 8:33 PM  
Blogger Sam said...

Certain ensembles have a longer history of performing and recording Mahler than others have. Isn't it true that Osmo Vanska has only recently added Mahler symphonies to his repertoire?

This is true, but the Minnesota Orchestra itself has as long a history with Mahler as any American orchestra - in fact, our band made the first-ever recording of Mahler's 1st symphony under Dmitri Mitropolous.

Most of the Mahler we play isn't done with Osmo on the podium since, as you say, it's not exactly his particular speciality. And you're certainly right that Chicago audiences seem to eat up Mahler. (They're also shockingly fond of Pierre Boulez's regular forays into modernist music. I've gotta start hanging around Chicago more...) But in most American cities, Mahler does tend to be a tough draw.

May 13, 2008 at 9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have for a while now been waiting for the right time and place to post a piece on the music of Gustav Mahler (1860-1911) and just how I came to find out about it and what about it particularly attracts me, as I have now for the past few months really been bitten again by the Mahler bug. It has been a while. I have known his music, most of it anyway, since my teenage years.

The authors mention dorks. Just what the difference between a dork, nerd or geek was not readily clarified by my young friends, however dorks seemed the least intelligent of the three types. Either the use of the word in the original piece doesn't quite fit, or it's being used for a deliberate bit of tongue in cheek. (Or is it?) In any case, always clear to me from a very young age, some time after I managed to gain the first real rudiments of music and piano playing; about that moment when I began to recognize that not everyone was likely to share an interest as intense or ever manage to get up the time or talent required to take up the playing of a musical instrument, and by this I mean the slow painstaking process of taking the business of it all seriously enough to apply oneself to years of mostly thankless and profitless practice (toil) over often frustrating and difficult to play passages, etc. that perhaps what we were engaged in was after all, nothing short of a fool's dream; to create a paradise in sound beyond words into which we could intermittently resort, no matter what the rest of our lives was demanding of us.

So, dorks or no, we serious musicians know who we are. Therefore, first of all, my comments must be directed at the dork contingent of the audience of likely readers, but must and will have something hopefully meaningful enough to say to the non-dorks out there, who just want an evening of music and don't really want to have to know everything that goes into making it.

To most people, the first time any of them are ever likely to hear any Mahler, their reaction is going to be something like, "so which horror movie is this the soundtrack to?' or possibly "which sappy tear jerking melodrama does this go with?" along with some other comments to the effect that nobody with half a brain should bother listening to such music, as it was clearly only fit to become the backdrop of some by now very dated motion picture. Of course that same reaction would likely suffice for all the Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, etc. too, as few these days, who can even tell the difference and after all, Beethoven is only the name of a fictional dog in a movie series, don't you know?

Within two generations, just as it had been predicted to me by a certain young, musically illiterate, folksinger I went to college with, the written musical literature and the culture that went with it have virtually vanished in many places around the country (and indeed the rest of the world too) and has been apparently and as if necessary confined to only those lucky or dumb enough to have fallen for the Sirens' call of "classical music" with its mixed promises of its hours of serious work and poorly remunerated pleasures. (Those who get caught up in it to the extent that one starts buying CD's on a regular basis has already succumbed to one of its worst vices, almost worse than any drug, and yes I will recommend certain performances to the serious listener.) Whereas there used to be many who could read some music, now hardly anyone does unless they are "professionals."

Classical music is increasingly portrayed as difficult, tedious and excruciatingly boring for most people to hear, so that it is most strange that once upon a time there were these weird beings called composers who were more variously honored by their followers than most poets, whose personal cults rival any saint from any religion, in fact there has always been something religious about what these people and their followers did. These people actually wrote music down in a transportable language, whether they imagined their music would last forever, as indeed many of them hoped, or because they happened once again to have been caught by the musical bug and were so effective at it that the rest of their peers stuck them with their life's work, however it came about, they did indeed create so much music that, by the crest of the classical music cultural wave, which could have been about the mid 20th century or arguably before that, by this time there is literally an ocean of music out there, which for want of any better label, has been stuck with the word "classical," such a vast quantity of it recorded that were one foolish enough to find access to it, one could drown a thousand times over in a lifetime in listening, as a few dorks actually have.

One evening, while I was up late listening to my local classical FM station (there are very few of these left, so I am showing my age), there was a program on the newly completed performing version of Mahler's 10th symphony, completed by Deryck Cooke. This was the first time I'd ever heard of Mahler and ironically the first music by him I had ever heard. There was something about the music I found unforgettable, compelling, many things actually; the sense of stretching harmonies, the elongated themes, the writing for strings placing demands on just about every instrument, the whole otherworldliness of the music, literally much of it skirting the naked edges of tonality itself, all with a brilliant and uncanny mastery unlike anything I'd heard before. Just who was this composer and what of the other of his symphonies?

All the real classical music dorks out there will understand my curiosity in a moment. Over the next few months as there was a bit of a Mahler Renaissance precipitated by the notice the 10th had received, the next pieces I came to know well were the 2nd symphony, Resurrection, and the 6th and 9th symphonies. I was then far too much under the spell of Leonard Bernstein to know that there were other Mahler interpreters just as good as him, or better. But it was through his versions that I gradually got to know all of them, the symphonies, and most of the song cycles. Mahler is one of the few composers whose music it is possible to know completely because although each piece is huge, there aren't that many of them.

What one also realizes as one gains familiarity with Mahler's music is that the music is all about the same subjects and can therefore become tied together in interesting ways. For instance, one can trace the appearance of two kinds of forms in Mahler, the slow adagio movements and the faster scherzos. Each of these has emotional resonance and there is also much references to water, wonder, love and death and what lies beyond death.

So first of all to any of us dorks, none of this music is either occasional or like anything after it; any possible suggestions to the contrary are merely the acknowledgment that Hollywood composers have pilfered Mahler as they have borrowed and stolen form others more notable from before Mahler. Each of the movements has natural affinities with other movements throughout the symphonies. For the slow movements, I'd begin with the slow third movement of the 1st, the 2nd of the 3rd, the famous Adagietto from the 5th, the slow middle movement from the 6th (either the 2nd or 3rd depending on the version), the 4th out of the 7th, the finales out of the 9th and 10th.

But then over the years, and it really was from the beginning, there was a realization I had of Mahler's prophetic attributes; he was predicting in his music not only his own end (he was a strenuous fellow not born with the physical capabilities to live such a life, a congenitally weak heart, etc.), but the end of Western civilization as it had been known and the future he saw was largely shrouded in darkness and militarism. Some of his casual flourishes seem uncannily predictive of Nazi troop goose-stepping, etc.

The best performances of Mahler are those with the least amount of excess schmaltz; what you want is to hear is an accomplished ensemble grind out the work of the great Grinder with precision and almost an insouciant disregard for the peril of getting the phrase wrong. The conductors who do the best Mahler keep the best tempos and don't allow the massiveness of the music to get away from them. Frankly, a listener wants to be properly jolted and stunned by Mahler as much as disturbed into tears. If the music doesn't get to you on some level after giving it your full attention then the players and conductor haven't given you either the worst emotional roller coaster of your life ... "I'm sorry, but I don't really enjoy having my emotions played with like that," or "that was probably the best music ever written!" as you wipe your eyes. Mahler should not be and isn't for the faint of heart. He pulls no punches, writing as he is at the turn of the last century he easily sees the strains and tensions that will lead to war, civil and social unrest, political upheavals of various kinds and even the eventual dissolution of traditional musical diatonic harmonies and recognizable forms, as the relentless and unknowable new crushes the powerless old.

Of course Mahler's work is also very personal, about himself. At the heart of Mahler's work lies the 5th with its recurring theme which we hear for the first time in the rambunctious 2nd movement. This recurring theme is the second and contrasting theme in this scherzo, the theme of impossible love. How very much this is like some music for a heroic and romantic tale of star crossed but chance acquaintance; perhaps the all of a summer's night meeting between the impossible lovers as depicted in the Adagietto, then the masked ball in the movement which follows and ending with the breathless alacrity of the finale with the same theme of impossible love emblazoned on the orchestration. I just love Mahler, how romantic and refreshing to express it the way he does, without shame or blush. Much may have passed him by in his troubled life, but certainly he knew true love, or at least for a time what he supposed it to be.

Of current conductors, I really like what Claudio Abbado has been able to accomplish, also Christoph von Eschenbach, but Simon Rattle's 10th is probably without peer. I have been greatly encouraged by the superb playing of the world's professional orchestra musicians who are seemingly getting to know this music and liking the ordeal of playing it more than was likely even forty years ago. I'm especially delighted that the 10th has not been neglected as it is, in my opinion, one of those works of such pivotal importance for the music that followed it and one which still speaks more profoundly to me about many of the ironic, both serious and frivolous aspects of life, as to be practically my favorite symphony. I would be delighted to hear from anyone else who felt a similar affinity for this work.

Thank-you for playing and programming more of the music of Gustav Mahler.

December 28, 2008 at 10:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

reached this blog on searching "aversion to Mahler". I spent hours of my youth (50s,60s)listening to his music; but am now increasingly irritated by it's frequently consuming the whole of the BBC's evening classical music slots. I recognize his originality, the extent of his influence, and the challenge for orchestral players of this very much 19th century composer; but Mahler's self-conscious soul searching is essentially for those who have the time & inclination for this activity - mainly the young. If you want long, emotionally varied musical experiences, try Handel operas which are increasingly packing out concert halls, as well as opera houses, in the UK - and the BBC is broadcasting all 40+ of them in this anniversay year.

February 14, 2009 at 10:46 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The first contact of Mahler I had was a not too expensive box set I bought in HMV. (it was Chailley, which people say his Mahler isn't all that great) I have never heard of the guy's music before, and the only thing I saw before was an entry on wikipedia about him writing long symphonies. I fell in love with the 6th within days. I have never heard such music before. The other music that I have seems to just pale compared to it. I put a few of his symphonies on my MP3 player and listened to them day after day, in particular addicted to the 6th. I have branched out since then, and I now favour the 6th, the 7th, the 9th, and the performing 10th. I liked the rest as well, but the above pieces are the ones which I would sacrifice almost all other music for.

January 21, 2010 at 12:08 AM  

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